Live hack ideas/suggestions

Question

Hey everyone. It’s the time of year I start hosting live hacks. I’d like to know your thoughts on subjects to cover. I have a list below and will add to it with your feedback. What are your thoughts?

Hacks subjects - SSC-32

servo pcb control hbridge
rock pi x
Servo Camera server with unity
navigation/slam discussion (what sensor options are available, what do people want out of navigation, etc)
exosphere telepresence option
making a robot skill
making a movement panel
tensor flow & yolo object detection
IPS with Glyph
intel realsense tracking (T265)
neat-o botvac lidar hack
databot review

RoboHappy · Answer

Hi DJ, All good ideas to me. Im for the telepresence and that yolo object detection looks interesting.

Nomad 6R · Answer

robot skills like making a walking gait ?

robo rad · Answer

I like Nomad's idea!  I do have one question about EZB brand HD servos. Everytime I buy one from Robotshop Canada they send me the servo with no plastic gear to actually use it on my robot,I try hot Glue to attach,no good, Krazy glue--works for about a week then lets it go. I saw you one time using a dremmel to shape the motor shaft into a slotted gear. Before I try something extreme like that is there any place I could buy some plastic gears to fit my HD servos?  DJ or Jer any suggestions?

Nink · Answer

I would like to see functional robot that does something useful.  Example a robot that changes the Keurig container in my coffee machine, puts a cup underneath and pushes the button so I have fresh coffee when my alarm goes off.  Or a robot that can play a simple card game like SNAP so you put down a card and it puts down a card and if they match says snap before you. Oh and of course the infamous get me a beer bot.   If I have to pick from list tensor flow and yolo (but I guess you could use that for the card playing bot as well or the I said I wanted a Corona not a Heineken beer bot)

DJ Sures · Answer

Nink - i won't be building a robot, that's what i make the software for so you can build the robot. I'll demonstrate different programming techniques and solutions to problems you're attempting to solve.  @Nomad & Roborad, there's dozens of auto position tutorials demonstrating how to use it. I don't think that needs to be covered any further. Between The Robot Program episodes and the auto position manual, there's dozens of videos.  Any ideas of what programming challenges or technology integrations you'd like to see? (outside of building robots)

robo rad · Answer

Right on Nink! I played the PC version of Fallout 4 and there is a robot that dispenses beer and just follows you around so you can shoot enemy and have a beer to celebrate the successful attacks.

robo rad · Answer

The newer Roomba and some Chinese knock off roombas do map the house and remember where to go clean, I have seen some new plugins that may be able to do this in synthiam Arc?  I think it needs to use wheel encoders to work.

DJ Sures · Answer

The new roomba isn't very hackable and too expensive for people to use in robot projects The old Neat-o vacuums have built-in 360 degree lidar that is quite hackable. That would be a fun hack As for other navigation things, the IPS is something that everyone has dismissed considerable. I'll add that to the list to demo how it works.  And another navigation system i haven't spent much time with but plan on making a skill for is the intel realsense tracking camera

robo rad · Answer

Ya true that 700.00 for a new Roomba forget about it, The Chinese versions though are only about 250.00 and can map rooms in memory,better than shark? Not sure but I may buy one for Christmas to see.

fxrtst · Answer

I’d love to see anything dealing with navigation. Like the Neato lidar and or the realsense camera. I’d really like robots to map rooms and avoid obstacles and wall.

EzAng · Answer

I would like to see a hack on the PixyCam2 making it wireless https://pixycam.com/pixy2/ or the : and the Intel RealSense Depth Camera D455 https://www.intelrealsense.com/depth-camera-d455/

Proteus · Answer

RealSense Depth Camera would be my choice. As i said almost 2 years ago, i think it is the way to go in robot navigation. Its low price, free sdk and an almost one in all solution makes it THE choice for personal diy robots. For example the included IMU makes the use of encoders unnecessary for SLAM.

robo rad · Answer

Botvac lidar hack would interest me too!

Perry_S · Answer

I would vote for lidar or something with navigation. Try to keep it low cost and let us know far enough in advance so we can divert some Christmas money if needed.

robo rad · Answer

Just checking if anything tonight? Just bought and downloaded the new starwars Squadrons as it was today 40 percent discount with graphics that are just mind blowing.Although still want to see a good hack if anything going on.

Mickey666Maus · Answer

I am on Star Wars Squadrons, lets meet up... For a life hack I would also be up for anything indoor navigation related, I always wanted to build a little tracked robot to explore my appartement!!

robo rad · Answer

Amazing space fighter simulation but I am still having a tough time getting used to all the different ships control behavior,all so different, The Tie Fighters are too sensitive to my joystick,always spiral into asteroids,LoL and R2 will never shut up with my erratic x wing flying!

robo rad · Answer

Wow just heard the true British actor at 80 just died he played Darth Vader in first 3 starwars movies,he was in the suit but voice was done by American James Earl Jones.

robo rad · Answer

Hey DJ which old Neato Vacs have the Lidar? Looked at the D7-8 on amazon very expensive and no good customer reviews,you are likely a 1 in 3 chance of buying a defective new unit,1 guy got 2 more peplacements,both broken,gave up asked for money back.....Then again it may be really cheap to buy used if has something defect but easy to fix and has working Lidar! EDIT--- On further investigating Amazon Canada, I did see the Neato D4 which still had Lidar but still price of 560.00 CND...I can buy a Lidar cheaper to just add on my Create 2 Roomba hacks.

robo rad · Answer

Hey Ezang that is a cool Link,looked into the real sense 3d Cam, and it uses on the fly intelligence to quickly identify objects in the room using an almost SCI-FI sensing program similar to how "Predator" Alien seeks target and modify vision to target enemy! Demo here

EzAng · Answer

My idea was and the Intel RealSense Depth Camera D455 https://www.intelrealsense.com/depth-camera-d455/

fxrtst · Answer

From Dj in another post: Quote:we’re working on a t265 robot skill currently...https://www.intelrealsense.com/tracking-camera-t265

Proteus · Answer

Yep, the T265 is best for vSlam.

Nink · Answer

The T265 disclaimer looks interesting.  WARNING This product can expose you to Antimony oxide (Antimony trioxide), which is known to the State of California to cause cancer.

Proteus · Answer

So do other 100.000.00 of things....:(

DJ Sures · Answer

Is that in the plastic? Or a sensor? Weird that it only causes cancer in the state of California haha love that wording

fxrtst · Answer

....yeah california has a very long list, exhaustive at times..... Quote:California's cancer-warning policy comes from a 1986 state law called Proposition 65, enacted to protect California's drinking-water supply from toxic and potentially cancer-causing chemicals. It also mandates the state keep a master list of all chemicals known to be toxins and requires manufacturers and businesses to warn people about these chemicals if they're present in products or buildings, even in extremely small doses.

ptp · Answer

@DJ: Regarding the camera T265, it seems the product is on auto pilot mode, is not discontinued or retired and is available, but, Intel moved the focus to other products. I have been burned a few times by intel. I have two realsense cameras deprecated on a short period time, broken promises e.g. skeleton tracking sdk. Looking to the other side: embedded boards: I have 2 edison, 1 damaged Galileu and 1 x Arduino Intel curie somewhere in the basement, everything is gone , remember Intel Joules (EZB 5). It's my guess, and off course I'm biased not very happy with some Intel decisions, but, you can check the open tickets and won't be fixed replies, plus the lack of response. There are a little bit of everything: stability issues, SDK crashes, missing features, and broken promises. It's a shame because it's really a good idea.

DJ Sures · Answer

yah - i'm in the same opinion. The main trouble is there isn't a good plug'n'play navigation system out there. The IPS is great for indoor but no one is manufacturing it. And doing any inside out navigation like the realsense is.. well, that's all there is. I'm hoping because there are enough real sense around that it'll at least stick around for a bit. It's not very well supported - i had a call with the cto of realsense division and even he didn't seem super optimistic about it, which was a little disappointing. I do recall our effort with Intel during the EZB V5... we had great expectations but they used us for the dog and pony show on stage and then discontinued the product. on that note, it isn't a great SDK to work with. There's a lot of marketing buzz words about navigation, localization and SLAM... but it's not really there. It can give you some data about movement but it doesn't know where you are. It also doesn't seem to create a map of where you are or how to get anywhere, so no path generation.  Not sure exactly how anyone else is using it. Hoping someone will shed some light

fxrtst · Answer

@ptp do you have a good suggestion for an affordable solution for navigation ( inside and out) if not intel products?

DJ Sures · Answer

Wonder if we're going to have to group together and make something --- or make something compatible with something that already exists. @ptp, the EZ SLAM skill will take lidar data and generate a map. However, the issue we ran with that is dead reckoning would drift. It needs wheel encoders. And even with wheel encoders, we found the SLAM map eventually started twisting and getting bent out of shape because the wheels slip. So really the SLAM is good for immediate room navigation but not good enough for a whole house or anything - in a real world environment. I know there's test cases and laboratory/university examples of slam working super well. But in the real world, we're not seeing it often because it's really used for obstacle avoidance.  I'm not sure what a real good navigation system is. Maybe we should start by discussing our navigation needs/requirements and working from there.

fxrtst · Answer

James Bruton has a turtlebot 3 and I think he used ROS navigation, but in that particular video he says its lidar had to be used with wheel encoders....so must always be drifting (slipping) issue when using lidar and lightweight robots...at least for the robot locating itself with in the map accurately...also explains why my Neato has very thick silicone wheels! So no Lidar and no TOF (time of flight) cameras..what options does that leave?

robo rad · Answer

The roombas come heavy with good traction wheels and encoders,so you experts are saying that even if I buy the Cheaper 360 Lidar systems,it won't really be able to make simple maps that can store on a pc like Latte panda? I am sure they come with coding samples to use on Arduinos or Python ,slower for me to learn than Synthiam Arc samples. They are only used as obstacle avoidance? I sure hope DJ does get something that maps nicely.or else just keep using sonar.

Proteus · Answer

@DJ: I was thinking about the IPS idea and came across a cheap way of doing so, it is cald "aruco marker navigation". As i understand it, it can be used with single or multiple markers. The markers give x,y,z coordinates. Take a look here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuyzlFzVbbE But i am still confident that the realsense is the best option for navigation. Let me know what u think guys.

DJ Sures · Answer

Yeah the glyph marker can be used right now. The camera robot skill actually provides the rotation (in degrees) of the detected glyph. So it would be very easy for you to make that happen. You'd never need to "guess" the direction of the robot because it would be always known. Some simple javascript would make that work easily.  You'd be limited to the distance with the camera and a glyph, however. Mainly because the further you get the larger the glyph will need to be. In a small home room, it wouldn't have to be huge. But it would be interesting for testing non the less.

DJ Sures · Answer

Oh - i should also add that glyph IPS is how 2 of synthiam's exosphere robots work. The robots have glyphs on top of them to know where they are and when the task has been accomplished. Then it uses that glyph to locate the robot into a random starting area for the next user.

Proteus · Answer

The aruco markers give 3 axis and the camera must be calibrated. This way the algorithm knows always the distance and location to the center of the camera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeI7DZxPadw

Proteus · Answer

DJ Sures · Answer

Are you asking for aruco marker detection rather than using the existing glyphs for this usage?

Nink · Answer

There is a little startup in Calgary called TakeMeTuit that do location tracking.  I met with CEO and his team and they track location using speakers and the microphone in a mobile phone.  They can get accuracy within a few centimetres in a 3 dimensional location so much better than Bluetooth or indoor magnet field detection.  I have been meaning to talk to them about using their tech to track robots locations but if someone wants me to set up a meeting I can.

fxrtst · Answer

I like that idea of gaining a 3rd dimension (z) using a 2d glyph. That's very similar of how motion capture works in the film industry.

DJ Sures · Answer

Nink, that would be neat. It’s hardware? How’s the price tag? I see users here that’d want it will, what would you do with the third dimension of tilt? And it’s only a few degrees, remember. As much as the visibility of the actual image to the camera. I’d need a use case to get an idea of what the skill would look like and what features it would provide you. The third dimension doesn’t help with navigation though.

fxrtst · Answer

I was thinking more in conjunction with the intel camera map for location (combined) ..but its not that part that fails for the mapping....im thinking of it for another unrelated use tho

DJ Sures · Answer

That would be one or the other. You see, the ips system mode (like what we are discussing) has a remote camera watching the room to see where the robot is. That is absolute positioning. It’s a godlike view of your robots location  the intel realsense (or slam based sensors like lidar) are not that. They use a collection of sensors mounted on the robot that tries to understand its position in an unknown and constantly changing space. This is why this type of navigation doesn’t exist as a viable or reliable solution. Otherwise, if this was solved, we’d have robots everywhere. This is the problem the entire planet of all super intelligent minds are having difficulty solving - well that and conversational Turing style AI. However, it seems this post says he’s solved all of that or made breakthroughs that would make great robot skills.

DJ Sures · Answer

Added SSC-32 as a hack suggestion

Proteus · Answer

Hey DJ, when are you going to do the live hack?

DJ Sures · Answer

I’ll most likely do one of those Jan 15th I’ll have time

fxrtst · Answer

I have tried the servo pcb board for position with a DC motor and I can never get it to work or blue smoke the board. Love to see a hack for servo pot and pcb to DC motor Hbridge....like a big one 12 volts or something similar. Thanks.

Proteus · Answer

Hey fxrtst, have you tried the T265 camera yet. Mine arrives Tuesday.

fxrtst · Answer

@proteusy Not yet, worst time of year for a project...family first...hoping too after the holidays.

DJ Sures · Answer

Will, did you forget to connect an hbridge to the servo pcb?

fxrtst · Answer

Yeah, I had an Hbridge connected. It was the TRex motor controller. This was quite awhile ago when I set it up. I tried with three pcbs and pots from a couple of ez robot servos.

DJ Sures · Answer

The hbridge will require logic input on the direction pins. So the servo therefore can only be powered by logic voltage (3 or 5v what ever the hbridge input logic is)

fxrtst · Answer

...yeah it was 5V logic from H bridge. So pretty sure no blue smoke from that, unless the EZ robot Servo pcb logic is less than 5 volts?! But maybe I messed up the wiring. I'll have to review it again soon. That is why I was asking to add it to hack night. I was piggy backing off Daves sabertooth thread...just wanted to post here to keep everything where it should be.

DJ Sures · Answer

I appreciate that (organization)

Nink · Answer

I am voting for the Neato Lidar Hack with Navigator

thetechguru · Answer

I 2nd Nink's vote for the Neato Lidar. Alan

fxrtst · Answer

Quote:I’ll most likely do one of those Jan 15th I’ll have time@DJ Are you going to do a Hack tomorrow?

DJ Sures · Answer

No. I’m out of the province stuck in covid lock down in northern Ontario...

fxrtst · Answer

Oh no! Ok stay safe...!!!

robo rad · Answer

Ya it sux,here in southern Ontario, I am about to try to go to Grocery store, If you dont here from me again I probably got into a fight with a security guy or cop because I refuse to follow arrows on the store floor or parking too long at Tim Hortons parking lot where they shoo you away if you stay in your car to drink coffee.

DJ Sures · Answer

Thanks. It’s not all bad. My family is here so visiting them during this weird time is good. Did some ice fishing last week. Had a few fish fry evenings this week. Mostly doing a lot of work on the cabin. Keeps me busy wish we had more snow though so I could go skidoo-ing. Worst winter for snowmobiling but I don’t mind the mild temps anyway

DJ Sures · Answer

Oh my... anyone want to see a live hack on making robots come to life and be real and conscience? O_o there's no shortage of dreamers out there

robo rad · Answer

DJ , I always marvel at a spider or ant on the floor, how it reacts and runs faster when my hand goes near it . It is tiny but still seems smart enough to get out of danger. I am wondering how much does that ant actually think or if it is all just sensory stimuli causing a reaction with all ant nerves wired together. This giving it the run away movement. OR is it in control by thinking Oh hell danger, get out fast! The spider must have some thinking going on to chase that ant ,captured in webbing saved for later to eat. I Mean I have used my new phone to zoom in on a spiders face, it almost looks evil and thinking with those beady eyes.xD  Wondering are we close to providing matching A.I. to a bug? Or all still just puppetry done with clever engineering?

Nomad 6R · Answer

hi roborad  here an interesting video about future robot bugs .

EzAng · Answer

all I can say is  WOW

fxrtst · Answer

@ DJ, Will you be doing anything from this list tonight? If not, do you know when you are scheduling now that you are back?

DJ Sures · Answer

Not sure when I’ll jump back in. Lots of other priorities keeping ARC updated and new feature development going on

most of everything in the list has been done with manuals on their respective robot skill pages

DJ Sures · Answer

Actually maybe I'll take a little break and hack with ya: https://synthiam.com/Community/HackEvents/A-little-of-this-a-little-of-that-20285

DJ Sures · Answer

I was thinking of doing some hacks during the week. How would you guys feel about that? Cause Friday’s don’t always line up with my schedule. Gonna do one on Tuesday and try it out

fxrtst · Answer

For sure anytime is a good time!

DJ Sures

Live Hack Ideas/Suggestions

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