Introducing Alan

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink,..

The bottom line is MOST (essentially all) people WILL use the EZB-V4 in their ALAN.

Obviously this will spike sales & interest in EZB-V4 sales, greatly increase the EZ-robot community with fresh blood, and subsequently increase sales of future releases of EZB boards (EZB-V5).

Most people would be willing to hand ove $100 for stl's to support a creator & have early access to the project.

Incidentally, I haven't heard any alternative routes to market as of yet?

@ptp, that's a bit of an off topic question, albeit I'll entertain it. Early thirties, maintenance technician at company specialises in production of ruggedised transportation solutions. Previously self-employed in construction sector but due to uk economy it made sense winding down operations to work in larger corporation. Any other peculiar questions, fire away!

Thanks, Andy

@A84M:

I like different point of views but sometimes is very difficult when you don't know what kind of person is on the other side.

I've engaged in a long argumentation before, later i discovered the guy was 15 and his main motivation was only the argumentation, not the subject.

I noticed some provocative comments before, so i was trying to understand if you are trolling around or really making your point.

A84M,

I hope you are right that most people will use the EZ-B to power something like this. The point is that the option is open to use whatever the person wants to use. This is also the problem that Will is facing. He isn't selling this as a "go to the store and buy it complete and ready to use" type of product. This scares those who are not makers or enthusiasts away. If he opted to go that route, and sell all of them with the EZ-B, that would do nothing but help to build the community which is good for all of us here, and for him in the long run. More money into EZ-Robot means more development on the next product. I still see no issue with this. It is a good thing to me and most of the people who frequent this community.

Just because something hasn't been posted on the forum doesn't mean that it isn't in the works. Many of us communicate away from this forum through other means. Many times information is exchanged with others through other means to express ideas or get information about things that are not meant to be public yet. Some of us knew about Alan long before he was announced here.

I think once trust is built, this type of communication becomes more available. There have been some who have taken ideas and marketed them as their own from posts that had been made here. There was not even credit given to the person who had the idea or solution in the first place. This tends to drive people away from the community for posting their work. This is a very bad thing and is nothing but disruptive. Because of this, people communicate via other means with people who have proven themselves trust worthy.

I post my email address in my profile. I know others do also. Many people also have my phone number and know that they are welcome to call at any time. I don't always answer, but they have it and often send text messages. If you post yours, and if you gain credibility through helping others to achieve their goals, I am sure that someone would find you to ask you questions or bounce ideas off of you that they had and maybe were not comfortable asking in the community. You may not want this. Either way, it's really up to you and them.

If there was some sort of DRM on STL files, I would be right there with you on your opinion of how Will could make startup money. There isn't, so if Will is willing to make $50-100K and then never expect to see another dime from his head STL files in order to be able to go on to build other body parts, that is cool. Your idea would work great. The issue that I see here is that he would be expected to do the same for any other Alan parts he creates as those with the head would expect the same thing. This could work and I am not saying that it wouldn't. I think Will is just exploring all of his options, and building publicity for Alan through other means prior to making that call. Its a wise thing to do. There Isn't anything driving people away from Alan, so what would Will's rush be in doing this? If there were something on the horizon that would take sales from Will, sure, it could be a strategic move for will to release his STL files to undercut the competition. That could happen. I haven't seen anything else coming out like Alan. There may be, and it is very possible that nobody except for its creator knows about it. There has not been publicity given to it to the level that Alan has had, so why wouldn't Will keep publicizing Alan to see if there is anyone willing to invest while still allowing Will to control the direction that he takes Alan?

Once he makes the move that you are proposing, all of the other options stop. Investors are not going to jump on board a product if it is free for people to get. They are also not interested in making $100K. They are interested in a product that people would have to go through them to get. What makes Alan not easily copyable? Its not the software, or servos, or electronics. All of that is purchasable with 2 day shipping for free from Amazon. The one thing that keeps others from cutting into the profits that are possible are the STL and CAD files. That's it. Why would he give those away essentially? Its not like Will doesn't have a means of making money outside of this product. His family isn't in danger of going hungry. He doesn't need $100K in order for him to continue developing Alan. I am sure it would help, but it's not critical.

Just my two cents and my viewpoint. I understand you have yours. Im not arguing with you. It is healthy to express different view points. It is healthy to understand and be able to express your own. It is what makes us adults and not children.

I look forward to your reply.

CochranRobotics,

Some very interesting & insightful viewpoints, enjoyable reading.

However, I think William does find himself under somewhat of a rush to act. What he has done is proven the market of an aesthetically impressive head, the stl's of which would in all likelihood generate tens of thousands. Because of this he has effectively begun a countdown timer until someone with efficient CAD/CAM skills puts together the stl's required to 3d print an essentially the same, aesthetically impressive head. This WILL happen, because the market for it is already proven, and ultimately you CAN'T patent the design of the humans head. Heck, if seriously struggle to see a patent granted for the ALAN head, unless of course it contains some novel mechanism incorporated into the design. Copyright of ALAN's stl's is, of course possible, however 'when' (not if) somebody else creates their own head, most likely undercutting ALAN's offering, I can't foresee ALAN selling thousands, because that's what it will take for William to comfortably live of for the rest of his days, and let's be honest, this is his primary goal.

A lot of potential contributors don't just see a project and scream "take my money", and the true 'hardcore' potential backers further like to understand a creators motives, vision, values & direction. From what I have witnessed here, Williams motives, vision, values & direction are $$$$, sell thousands, 'This Is MINE!', sell millions more.

Now, Regarding motives & vision, there s no shame associated to making money from your efforts, that has not been disputed, however charging 3-4times the price for off-the-shelf electronics is a sure-fire way of losing potential interested backer, and 'reputation-suicide'. Most (if not all) potential backers will run a mile, only to return when the enterprise has collapsed to pick at the bones (stl's) freely available.

With respect to values, the attitude of 'This Is MINE!', well that IS indeed the case. However with the overemphasis on protection of works this brings Williams values into sharp focus. Not once have I heard 'I want to put an ALAN into every classroom', or 'Robomodix's vision is to put an aesthetically pleasing robotic research platform affordable & on the test bench of makers, hobbyists & students around the world, who otherwise may have been unable to afford entry to that research'. Of course these would fall into the category of company vision, however a companies vision is deeply intertwined with its values.

What compounds this even further is these statements have not just been omitted, in earlier posts when the price/affordability of ALAN was first raised to William, his response was essentially, "I understand, unfortunately there are the 'haves' & the 'have-nots', ALAN is geared toward the 'haves' market (peasants & pauper's need not apply). Because of this attitude it is impossible to renege at this point and now claim 'ALAN was built to help starving children'.

"Pride comes before a lofty fall"

At this stage, I'll probably wait 6-8weeks until someone releases an alternative on one of the many file sharing sites (paid or otherwise).

The sadest part (besides Will refusing every opportunity afforded him to mend his ways) is Will has intricately grafted himself on to the EZ-robot brand, who by all accounts have a great reputation. Most companies would cut you loose before you can say "But,.." for attempting to quadruple the resale value of their products?..

What's fundamentally at the bottom of all this, is Williams valuation of ALAN. Is ALAN a great design?.. There isn't a doubt he is. Is ALAN going to make William rich?.. Most likely no. Are more robotic heads going to appear early 2016?.. Without a doubt.

Because of the last point, putting a valuation on ALAN is extraordinarily difficult, although one thing is for certain, that valuation can only diminish with every passing day,..

Warm Regards, Andrew

Andrew,

All great points and I see where you are coming from. There has been a misconception from the get go, perhaps because of the video show, that Alan is a 3d printed head. The only part of the head (from my understanding) that was going to be 3d printed is the eye balls. The other parts are all produced by people who are master craftsmen and would hand craft the parts through cold cast molds, and custom fitting.

As far as the electronics that are in Alan go, there are so many other things that go into this cost. WILL would not use a just in time model as a supply chain. These parts would have to be housed. They would have to be shipped to and from California I believe. Inventory would have to be kept. This caries its own costs that are rolled into the cost of these parts. There is a reason that Will was also offered as a kit of resin pieces. Will knows that these parts could be purchased more cheaply elsewhere, and I am sure that Will wouldn't want to stock these electronic components. There is risk associated with this that in order to mitigate, you have to charge more. It is much better to get these from a distributors, parts shops or anyone who's business is geared to distribute these types of components. That's not what Will's business is geared to do, so obviously it would cost him more, which would be passed onto the consumer for providing this service. ***Inventory is also taxed in the US ***

I don't think it is pride, as I have talked to Will multiple times and he has never come across as prideful. I think you are reading it completely wrong. I think that he knows what his business is, and knows what he wants it to be. I think your making an assumption based on something you read. I think he is simply saying "The costs are what they are. I can't give it away, and right now this is what I have to charge with the current arrangements that I have."

Will is very closely tied to education, far more than you realize. He will understand what I am saying, but I can assure you that his first thought was education and how it can be used in colleges and universities. This is from a conversation that I had with him quite some time back.

I am sure that others will come out. I am sure that Alan sparked some people attention and as such caused some people to want to emulate it. He has ammo to counter this if he wants to do this. He would just follow your plan and raise what he could for this one part. I don't see anyone else who has this ammo at this point. Once someone else pushes him to make a move, I am sure that he will. Its not that time yet. That time could be 8 weeks away. That time could be 6 months away. Who knows, but making a move prior to needing to is normally the wrong move iMHO.

Will has been a long time member of this community. This project didn't bring him closer or further away from this community than he already was. He has used EZ-Robot products for a very long time, so naturally he would demo his product with an EZ-B just the same as someone else who was familiar with an arduino would use it to demo their product. I am confused as to why this is sad. Again, what Will wants you to do is purchase the resin pieces and not the electronics I think. The EZ-B is a part of the electronics. You can use it if you want, you don't have to. I am sure that many of the people who were looking at this were looking at it not caring what controller the demo had with it. I am sure a lot were looking at it knowing it had an ez-b and it probably brought more people to the community already. Nothing bad here.

I feel like you have made assumptions based on limited information, like I have said in the past. It is easy to assume that someone is a certain way from a comment on a forum. I can assure you that you have Will all wrong.

Have a great weekend! David

*** I got interrupted about 10 times while writing this. I have gone back and corrected the things that I found that were obviously mistakes during these interruptions. ***

Patents and copy-writes are pretty useless in today's society. I have spoken to Will about this, and he is well aware of the impossibility of defending a patent or copy-write. China will end up mass producing something similar in the long run, so really it is a total waste of time to even pursue. Also, tech giants like Google, IBM, Apple and many others have abused this system of protection to the point that it is useless. Ask any car manufacturer about trying to defend a patent in China. They will all tell you that there is nothing that can be done outside of your own boarders, and even then it really doesn't matter once China gets ahold of what you have.

@Richard they are indeed magically delicious!

Someone here asked would stls even look as good as my finals parts..nope not unless you print them on a $15,000 + 3d printer. Anyways there would be no way to create the skins even if you could print the rest of the head, so there would only be the skinless version.

As for dongle protected stl's , I've seen hacked dongle software..nothing is impossible to hack. ALANS value would be "0", as Richard pointed out.

As for investors, many are accountant types, where the numbers are the most important. As a self employed person I understand that to a degree. BUT, there are moral values, logistics and artist integrity at stake, i.e. I'm not selling out. For example I would not develop ALAN for the military or as a sex toy.

As David C pointed out I'm not going broke and I don't need $125K to proceed with developing him for other uses. I make a six figure income, so I'm not trying to get rich. What I am trying to do, is build a business, creating new and unique robot platforms to test on. In the next six months ALAN may indeed become something bigger than what he is now, moving him out of the consumer arena. There are many possibilities. But, I don't have to rush to get there.

Oh Andy from Ireland..you can fan the fire as much you want but it won't produce your stl's I could sit here all day opening my production books to you explaining why this costs that and how much this costs and why that part does this and needs to be that instead of this. But in the end of the day all you want is your deservedly owed $100 worth of stl's. I got a great idea. Go build your own robot head. Learn a CAD program, learn EZB, learn how cheap all the hardware is, take a business class and quit whining. You spend your time here trying to fill in all the gaps with your own foul opinion, not knowing anything about me and my business plans (which is alot). As an example, my wife works for UCLA (University of California Los Angeles).

You love the sound of your own voice and to create overall negativity. Go be fruitful, we will all be waiting to see your version of a very affordable EZB controlled android head.

@Will.... bravo Sir ....@A84M Time to troll another forum and make some new friends...