dodi
Germany
Asked
— Edited
When I start the camera of my Roli, it produces some noise (rattling), when I stop it the noise disappears. Are there any movable parts inside the camera bit?
What could be wrong?
Also the camera does not always have the proper network address. I have to adjust the robot address whenever it connects to my WLAN (client mode), and until the recent update the camera address followed what I entered in the Connection window. But since the update to 2015.02.06.00 (firmware v16.6) I observed both the noise and the lack of address synchronization.
Another problem with the camera: Movement tracking works, but servo tracking seems to do nothing. What could be wrong?
Lacking any answers so far, should I submit another Assistance Needed report?
Please explain what you are having trouble with. Everything works, someone can help you understand how to use a feature if you're unable to use the manual or highlight over blue question marks.
If "servo tracking" doesn't seem to be working for you then it is highly likely the control is not set up correctly.
As DJ has stated, the manual and the blue question marks give guidance on this however if you are still struggling to configure the control correctly or believe you have a problem with a control the simplest way to get help is to post a copy of your project along with details on which accessories are connected to which ports on the EZ-B, we can then take a look at the project and advise accordingly.
Also, there are no moving parts within the camera, the camera is provided without it's casing in the developers kit as were the first batch of cameras sent out with the early, Canadian made kits.
If the camera is rattling remove the casing to investigate the rattle.
The camera control saves the last given IP address for the EZ-Robot camera. If this changes each time you connect to your network then you must change the IP address of the camera and of the EZ-B. To avoid this set a reserved IP address in your router for the EZ-B.
In the meantime I could make servo tracking work, I had misconfigured the Min/Max values, due to inappropriate documentation (outdated Builder version) and missing question marks in the new configuration dialog. It's unclear what are the X and Y servo directions, I guess that they refer to the picture horizontal/vertical coordinates.
Could the rattling noise result from a picture stabiliser, moving the die mechanically? The noise is acceptable, I only should know whether it indicates some defect. How to disassemble the Roli camera housing?
The IP address is a nasty problem. First I cannot reserve an IP address to a WLAN device in my router, it seems to handle only reserved LAN devices (cable connected). Second the wrong network is scanned (here a local VMWare network), I have to obtain the dynamically assigned IP address from my router whenever the Roli connects the my WLAN, and enter it manually in the Connection window. It would be nice if the scanner used the network listed in the connection dialog by default.
I cannot remember that the camera address deserved an adjustment before the last Builder update to ...06.00, that's why I suspected that the update had caused the lack of address synchronization.
BTW, the About dialog disappears so quickly, that I have to invoke it multiple times for writing down the full Builder and firmware versions. Is there a more comfortable way to obtain these numbers?
Max and min values should not be too difficult to understand regardless of a lack of information. Minimum values should always be lower than maximum values, this is common sense. If something has a minimum value of 20 it's common sense that the maximum value should be greater than 20, is it not?
X and Y are axis, these are generally learned early on in mathematics, I learned about them in primary school. "X is a cross" meaning X is along the horizontal axis. It should be a given that users are aware of the X,Y axis much like it is assumed that the user can read...
Firmware is irrelevant, it doesn't tell you your current firmware it states the latest firmware for the now obsolete EZ-B V3. The EZ-B V4 has no firmware updates.
The ARC version number is in the title bar of ARC however, on opening it will warn that you have an old version if you are not running the latest version, and if you are not running the latest version it is advised that you upgrade to the latest version.
To disassemble the camera remove the screws and pull the casing apart. Do you honestly require instructions for such a simple task?
Network issues should be taken up with your network administrator. Due to the fact that there are literally thousands of different network configurations you cannot or should not expect anyone but your network administrator to be able to help without a full breakdown of the network.
It looks like I don't have the right tools for disassembling the camera case. But I'm sure that somebody knows about the parts inside it...
@everyone.... I think this guy is getting his jollies playing with us.... I for one am done helping him with that....
Ok, honestly.....you don't have a phillips head screwdriver or can't find one? Is more than that required? I get the feeling you are deliberately being obtuse.
Yes, they rotate along the X or Y axis. My apologies for not realising you required it to be dumbed down further and cannot understand the concept of a horizontal or vertical axis when denoted as the X or Y axis.
The X axis is the horizontal axis. This is also commonly known as "pan". The object will rotate on this axis. Nowhere did I say or imply it would move left or right, forwards or backwards.
The Y axis is the vertical axis. This is also commonly known as "tilt". The object will rotate on this axis. Again, it was not said nor implied that it would move up or down.
Also, as previously stated, there are no moving parts within the camera case. The camera can be supplied without case.
Falling back on to the IP of the camera which you claim to be an issue, in this topic you clearly state that you successfully set a reserved IP address for the robot yet in this topic you are stating otherwise. Which is it? Did David waste his time helping you solve your first issue of the VM network and fixed IP or are you playing some kind of game where you think it's fun to be disruptive?
Everything has been explained clearly, basically and thoroughly, I do not know how else I can respond and it's fast becoming like you are being purposefully disruptive which does not help anyone.
Common Camera-move Terms
Pan - A pan is a horizontal camera pivot, right to left or left to right, from a stationary position.
Tilt - The tilt is the vertical version of a pan: an up or down pivot of the camera.
Truck - "Truck" is one of the terms that originated with pedestal-mounted cameras. A truck is a rolling move to the right or left, parallel to a moving subject.
Dolly - A dolly is a companion move to the truck but instead of moving parallel with a moving subject, the camera moves physically closer to, or farther away from, a stationary object.
Arc - The ARC is another wheeled shot that can be very effective. Imagine that you tie a string from your subject to the camera and move the camera left or right in an ARC keeping the string taut as you move. The ARC shot virtually circles the subject, revealing new background as the camera moves while keeping the audience's attention on the subject. Copied from tinterweb eyeroll
The phillips head screwdriver is actually American and named after Henry Phillips. There is plenty of information on him and why the cross head screw driver has taken his name all over the internet should you wish to educate yourself...
Any watchmaker screwdriver set will have at least one screw driver that will fit, generally they come with sizes 00, 0, 1, 2 and 3. Your PH0 or PH1 should fit provided the shaft is not too thick, if it is then you need to find a PH0 or PH1 with a slimmer shaft (i.e. the watchmaker screwdriver set). A "terminal" screwdriver should also fit or at a push a flat head screwdriver will fit too. Odd that someone with over 50 years of electronics experience does not have a whole range of different sets of these!..
P.S. In the English language the word "an" is only used before words that begin with vowels. I know how much you like perfection in spelling and grammar so felt compelled to help you get yours correct
@rich
I think that you confused the axes. An object on a vertical axis can be turned into North, East etc. directions, that's what I understand as "pan". WRT to the camera picture, this movement would be left/right, along the horizontal image axis. Accordingly "tilt" would go from upwards to downwards direction, along the vertical axis in an 2D image.If you don't understand the difference, take a look at e.g. 5 coordinate NC/CNC machine tools, which allow for moves in 3 linear directions (translation) and 2 angles (rotation). A linear translation moves from one coordinate to another one in an 2D (flat, map...) coordinate system. A rotation instead occurs in place, not changing the linear coordinates of the object.
Linear coordinate systems often are called Cartesian coordinate systems, when the axes differ by 90° angles (orthogonal). Since a combination of multiple rotary servos rotates (turns) the coordinate system, it should always be specified whether axes and coordinates refer to the outer world system (geographical: E/W, N/S, ground/sky), to the moving robot system (forward/back, left/right, up/down), or to the translated system, like the camera viewing direction (up/down, left/right, landscape/portrait).
As to the assignment of servos to the X and Y axis in the camera settings, open the Roli example program. If you don't know how to open it, download and install the latest ARC. When you start the program - I hope you know how to start a Windows program? If not simply ask, I'm sure that the community can provide more assistance. When the program starts, select the ROLI robot course and follow the instructions. If you don't have an Roli at hand, for now it's sufficient that you construct a robot head, consisting of two lever servos and a camera on top of the servos. Connect the servos to the indicated ports. If you don't know how to connect a servo to an port ...
Then you may be able to answer these simple questions:
What's the servo number for the X axis in the camera settings dialog, and which is the number for the Y axis servo?
As a more sophisticated example, what are the servo numbers when you don't want the camera to follow an object, but instead want to point the right arm into the direction of the tracking object, not moving the robot or the camera (stationary case)?
In the latter case you may notice that you have to calibrate the robot arm movements, so that they move by the angles corresponding to the positon of the tracked object. This seems to be one use of the Min and Max positions in the camera settings, as seen by the camera. Another use is limiting the arm movement, so that the arm keeps away from the robot body. Can you obtain settings which meet both goals? If not, why not?
@Rich
David could help me in digging into the most important parts of the router configuration menu, so that I could find out how to identify the Roli IP address. Later on I found an entry "Feste IP-Adressen", and entered the Roli MAC address and desired IP address there, and everything looked nice. But as mentioned in multiple postings since then, the router does not honor these settings, most probably they apply only to cable connections, not to WLAN clients. Do you need instructions on finding such postings? Then have a look e.g. at the begin of this topic, to which you just responded.If you are such a clever boy, you certainly can convince my Internet and phone provider to supply me another WLAN router, that matches the EZ requirements. Or give instructions on using my old Fritz!Box WLAN 3050 for a secondary WLAN connection reserved to the Roli, and how I can use it in parallel to the Internet WLAN router (on Windows 8).
TIA for your assistance :-)
@Rich
I stopped building my own computers in the mid 80s, when the Atari ST was the first system that met my requirements. When moving to Flensburg, 10 years later, I gave all my electrical and mechanical stock to my neighbour, retaining only the most frequently required tools (hammer, German screwdrivers...). Since I started playing with an Arduino I'm extending that retained equipment. I didn't realize what a bunch of special tools and devices is required to make an EZ robot work :-(@Rich
At school I learned that "an" also is used with the accusative case, isn't it?I also make a difference between official documentation, which should be free of typos and other errors, and informal conversation, where I do not expect perfect spelling from non-native English speakers - do you?
@bborastero: Thanks for the information :-)
I still have problems with the English technical terms, which I didn't need in discussing programs and coding in the past. But I'm an old dog now, and only can hope that I'm still able to learn and remember new tricks ;-)
I have not confused anything, it is you who has the axis confused, unless you are stating that I along with millions of internet users, the ARC software, every video game, every IP camera with Pan/Tilt function and a lot more have got it wrong... My explanation has been confirmed and backed up by others who have provided you with further graphical aids and terminology pulled from the internet. Do not assume that because what you are told does not match what you thought was correct that the person correcting you is wrong, such an attitude will not get you far.
For further confirmation and clear guidance here is yet another image explaining the X and Y axis for a camera;
We are not talking about a co-ordinate system, we are talking about an object rotating on two axis. The two are very different things. I think the fact that every tutorial EZ-Robot has created has been completed as can be seen in my profile along with the 33 robot apps created and shared and 320 plus questions answered which are credited to my profile plus the hundreds of questions which were before the credit system should indicate my level of competency. In case you are unable to find it, here are the stats;I do not appreciate your tone and since I am now one of a small handful left are willing to help you it's probably a good idea not to act like a tool.
Your question is unclear. Please ask again with more information. Do you mean port numbers? This will depend on the ports that the arm is on. It would also require relative tracking to be enabled. I corrected your spelling mistake above. Yes you can obtain settings to meet the goals. Again, it would depend on the arms. Since Roli is the one EZ-Robot I do not have I am unable to advise on exact settings. Or you could, and I know this is a little out there but you could buy a router which would make your life easier if the issue your router is causing you is such a disastrous one. Standard screw drivers are not special tools. You need the same screw drivers to open any battery compartment for electronic toys amongst thousands of other things. You have said that the camera works therefore you do not need this screwdriver to make it work, you need it as you believe there to be a problem with the camera. Nope. "Using an and a does not depend on the spelling of the word it comes before, it depends on the pronunciation of the word. In most cases though, an is used before words that begin with vowels (a, e, i, o u.). If a word starts with a consonant sound, use a."Yes I am being pedantic and mocking a little since you are so picky with the typos I just presumed you would have perfect spelling and grammar yourself, or at least would appreciate being informed when it wasn't. I know I appreciate it when I am picked up on it and as many members would confirm, they know something is wrong if my responses are not written without errors.
A final note. As I mentioned above, I am now one of a very small handful of people who are willing to put up with you and provide assistance. Your disruptive behaviour, attitude and insults have been the subject of quite a few emails in my inbox with statements such as "how do you have the patience...", other members of the community have openly voiced their concerns also. While the community here is very friendly, open and welcoming we do not tolerate disruptiveness, rudeness nor these superiority complex attitudes you seem to be displaying. I would highly suggest that you change your behaviour if you are hoping to continue to receive guidance.
@dodi I read through posts and was moving from irritated to angry, then I saw this:
I realized that must be a punchline to a joke. I laughed so hard I spit my coffee.
Below is a picture if the highly specialized tool called a Phillips screwdriver like the one I use. It happens to be a 3.0mm X 80mm one and it works perfectly for the screws used by EZ-Robot.
I don't know how you managed to go the last 60 years without needing one but that is probably a feat to be congratulated on. At any rate, I hope this picture helps you track down what you need.
From here on out I think I'll just bring my popcorn and watch the show.
@Rich
You are, confusing axes and planes :-(Take a single axis, say a vertical flagstaff. Then you can move along it (climb it up and down, vertical translation), and you can rotate around it (pan in the horizontal plane). That's the agreed mathematical definition of an axis. The associated plane is orthogonal to its axis.
In case your (technical?) definition is different, please explain.
I'm willing to accept that a so called "Neck Horizontal" servo" allows for a movement (turn) in the horizontal plane (pan). See Roli Assembly Instructions step 11 (https://synthiam.com/Tutorials/Lesson/63?courseId=3). Question remains whether this is the servo to specify as X or Y axis servo in the Camera Config Settings dialog.
As taken from numerous dictionaries and glossaries;
Axis - an imaginary line about which a body rotates.
Plane - a flat surface on which a straight line joining any two points on it would wholly lie.
The camera rotates around an imaginary line thus an axis. The horizontal or X axis is pan while the vertical or Y axis is tilt. As has been explained to you multiple times by multiple members and backed up by numerous sources.
This is correct. This is how camera movement is denoted. If you are saying it is wrong then please feel free to correct every pan/tilt camera manufacturer, video game developer, software engineer, photographer etc.
Some references for you; Advances in Image and Video Technology - See page 677 Robotics and Automation Handbook - See page 22-3 I can post more but I am sure it will be wasted.
I've also answered your questions multiple times. I refuse to explain any further much like I am now refusing to provide you with any assistance until your attitude changes. I know many other community members are also of the same opinion too.
Agreed.
Lol, see, you leave the door open and you never know what will wonder in.
I just have flashbacks to a similar situation tired
@Rich, I just had a "Déjà Vu" moment !
@Rich
These look like technical definitions, not mathematical ones. I understand that axes are related to motors in this context, that's a somewhat meaningful view. But what then is the definition for the axes of an image (picture), what should rotate about these? Above "plane" is a recursive definition of "flat" and "straight", otherwise a plane is defined by 3 points.But thanks to your assistance I understand now, why our discussion is so fruitless: we use the same words for very different things, so that it's almost impossible to understand each other. It will be sufficient when you respond to my further questions that you don't understand them, instead of writing long answers to questions never asked. Thanks for the fish ;-)
@Everyone_and_EZ-ROBOT.
If you look at this guy's past posts you can see the only thread he seemed normal in was his first. In all the rest he has been combative and arugmentive. He tries to play people as fools that are trying to help him. He is taking up the valuable time of good intentioned people with better things to do and away from other people who could use the help.
I think this person needs to be banned.
I agree 100% with @Dave... cut him loose....
edit oh, and as a parting gift send him a Philips screwdriver...
@Dodi, your response makes me wonder why you are asking the questions if you believe you already know the answers? I presume you believe you know the answers otherwise you wouldn't be arguing with my responses (which for your information have come from technical publications and published books amongst other sources - I guess the well respected, educated authors are wrong too).
As I said, I am unable to assist you further until there is a change in your attitude. It may be beneficial to you to check over the forum etiquette again too.
I'm with you Dave. I agree too. He's not asking for real help, and just seems he wants to show off with an unwelcome "holier than thou" attitude.
Ban from forum participation for sure, unless his attitude drastically changes for the better and is willing to listen to people's advice. mad
@bborastero,
I have been staying out of this conversation because of how irritating the responses have been, but I agree a ban is excessive at this stage. Other than spammers, as far as I know only one user has ever been banned, and he was both argumentative and incomprehensible (barely literate).
It should be easy enough to ignore him if he continues to be obnoxious in his replies. He'll either stop arguing with (correct) answers or go away on his own.
Alan
I have nearly posted many times in this thread but have always asked myself "why? It's not like it's going to do any good.", and deleted the text and moved on. Even now as I type this, I am really tempted to do the same.
Dodi, please hear what I am saying. Ez-robot support comes from its community members. They are from most walks of life and are some of the smartest people on electronics, programming, fabrication, mechanical engineering and many other fields that are helpful in building a robot. Many of them have asked questions and gotten answers from other members who are more than willing to go out of their way to help. This help is normally very quick and correct but does require that someone take time away from their own project, families or whatever it may be that they could be doing. Many of these people have faced the same issues you have and have overcome the issue. They are quick to answer with the knowledge that they have from overcoming the same issue already. This makes them very valuable to you in the attempt that you are making to overcome the same issue. Sometimes, these community members have a successful professional career in the subject and can even be called experts on the issue you are having.
Please accept the help that is offered and try to do so in a gracious manner instead of a combative or argumentative manner. If you think back to your first post, within 15 minutes or so of your original post, you had the correct answer given. For the next 6 hours you didn't accept that it was the right answer and got very frustrated and frustrated others. It was during that thread that I said to myself, there has to be a better way to help people with robots, and I decided to quit answering questions on this forum as much and move on to writing something that could be shared. What this means is that your actions in your first thread were frustrating enough to me that I have avoided this thread from your first post and the forum in general for answering questions. There are many others who have avoided this thread because of the responses you gave to the help that you were being given. There are an increasing number of members who are avoiding your questions all together.
I am in no way asking that you be banned, only that you change your ways on this forum. It will get you a lot of help with your future robot issues. This not only goes for this forum but every site on the Internet and in life in general.
Nicely put David.
For the record, I do not agree with banning members unless it's extreme circumstances. However, I will not be providing assistance to the user until a change in attitude and behaviour is noticed, I am not urging others to follow me, this is not a witch hunt. I do urge anyone else who is as frustrated and irate as I was becoming to avoid engaging in any topics with the user (any user, not limited to just Dodi) and concentrate on those areas and users which do interest you - pretty much what it says in the forum etiquette topic
Okay, maybe banning is too much of a nuclear option right now. Maybe I was a little too conservative in my opinion here. I just don't like to see people who spend their valuable time helping others played and mocked. At least the warning has been given.
This guy obviously thinks he has a superior intellect, has an ax to grind about something and can't accept when he's wrong. Either that or he's just a jerk. Most all his threads have the same feel.
@Dave Schulpius It's called Narcissism bro. I know TOO many people like this. Ugh mad
@Doombot,
Nice to see you back. where have you been?!
Alan
Glad to see members classifying this thread for what is really going on in it.
@thetechguru Man, IKON has been taking up all of my time, I have so many back orders so I made a decision to take care of that. You think EZ Robot customers get angry (for not getting their orders in time), but damn! I'm still not done, but it's under control sir...
See my new little pet project Dirgebot just posted pics...
I promise not to respond further to unrelated answers. Even if I'm getting quite angry when I'm presented with pictures of screwdrivers, when I ask for what exact size I should order for disassembling the camera case :-(
Remains one key question about "axis". Rich said:
and bborastero said: No question that the X axis usually is the horizontal axis in 2D. Reviewing the Roli design the "Neck horizontal" servo has its axis in horizontal direction. But when the camera rotates about this horizontal axis, it IMO does tilt (up/down), not pan (left/right), as bborastero says, in contrast to what Rich says. Can somebody help me out of this confusion?No, the X axis (pan) rotational servo pans left and right. If your Y axis (tilt) lever servo is tilted up or down, then I guess you could say that the pan is really going up down or at an angle, but it is left/right in relation to the neck.
Alan
The servo that is plugged into D09 is for up and down or Y axis.
The servo that is plugged into D10 is for the X axis.
This is from the Example Project for Roli. Make sure your servos are plugged into these ports. The servo that is in D09 will be the servo with the arm connected the gear and to the opposite side of the servo from the gear. The servo in D10 will be the servo that has the square horn attached to the gear of the servo.
Using the example you would specify the X axis in the servo as D10 and the Y axis servo as D09 in the camera control configuration.
From there, you would set horizontal steps to 3 and vertical steps to 2. Check the check box that says Enable servo tracking and click save.
From there, click Tracking at the top of the Camera Control. Click the Face option and then click Device at the top of the Camera Control. The robot will start tracking your face.
This will show you the X and Y axis servos working. Position your face in front of the camera. Your face will show up in the Camera control Move your face to the left or right and you will see the X axis servo turn to track your face. Move your face up or down to have it track your face using the Y axis servo. Move your face up and to the right and both the X and Y axis servos will be working to track your face. This will help you see what is meant by X Axis or Horizontal and Y Axis or Vertical.
@Rich ...Here is a better one... Trying to explain...
Although there are no hand tool designers in this forum I'm sure others will agree that even though we are all basically robotic hackers no one is an expert in hand tools, exact sizes, etc. I'm not suggesting how you should open your camera case but I've included a couple of images of the Phillips head driver I use for such endeavors. I never go out to a hardware store (or online) and order just a single tool for a single task. I always plan to use a tool more than once and since most tools come in more than one size I always look for sets or kits that provide me with lots of options.
Perhaps you could hire a screwdriver from the local tool hire place?
Good.
EDIT Rant removed. I misread on my phone. Apologies to all.
I wish someone would lock and/or delete this thread.
Edited to remove my correction of @zap's rant.
:)
Alan
@Zap... you're right this thread has really ran off into the ditch... I think it should be removed...
Okay, I think I got it.
This means that this servo (Neck Vertical) makes the camera look along the Y (vertical) axis (up/down, tilt), by rotating the camera around the X (horizontal) axis.Thanks for your kind and patient assistance :-)
Wow, 55 posts and he finally gets what was said in posts 6, 9, 14, 15, 23...
Once more for luck... The vertical servo, which is labeled as the Y axis in the control since the Y axis is the vertical axis, will cause the camera fitted to it to rotate up and down or tilt across the vertical (y) axis. The horizontal servo, which is labeled as the X axis in the control since the X axis is the horizontal axis, will cause the camera fitted to it to rotate left and right or pan across the horizontal (x) axis.
Hey @Robot Doc, those are some nice looking PC Precision Screw Drivers. I might drive over to Harbor Freight and pick up a set for the $10 USD they are asking. How do they feel in the hand while using on small screw heads like connector blocks? Are they strong and hold up?
@Dave, The drivers feel good in the hand and there is more control to apply needed torque than you would have using the smaller jewelers screwdriver kits found at ebay and the soon to be closed Radio Shacks.
@rich, at least he got someone to post something.
Consider what happens when you do this with the camera, mounted on the two neck servos: Pan fully to the right. Then tilt down and up, this will rotate the camera image, from portrait to landscape and back again. That's why I have problems with the X and Y axes, and pan and tilt, in a 3D world :-( I.e. I have no problems in understanding what's going on, but I have not much use for axes which do not correspond to servo motor axes. That's all.
I can supply a video, as soon as video recording will work.
simple just swop the two neck servos around keeping the ports the same I've done the same because I like the image to stay landscape and come on Mr Dodi experiment a bit it's what EZ robot is about tired
You are right, RelaxMode(ON) :-)