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Asked

Arc On Windows 10 Viva Vitualbox Or Wine App

Is it possible to run ARC on windows 10 in a virtual box running in linux ubuntu 18.04?
I was wondering becuase i was thinkn of investing in the nvidia Xavier which runs linux and is an extremely versatile in mobile applications, i want to use ARC and ez robot to learn coding with the c# and learn enough intil i feel it save to switch to the Xavier side, ARC and ezbv4 is the fastest way to use for beginners and intermediate and the Xavier is great for intermediate to professional and if i can learn c# then i can learn traditional c and then assembler to use in industrial usage later, sorry in ask so many questions but im trying to move into another career in as fast as possible and self taught to avoid over paying a vocation school for worthless results.

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France
#1  
Yes, you can run ARC in a win10 virtualbox under linux. It is the config I am currently using. So far, every functions or plugins I have tested work (but I didn't try everything).
PRO
Synthiam
#2  
That's WAY too expensive of a portable computer to get. If you want something small that runs ARC great, use an Intel Up-board: https://up-board.org/

I am actually using one this very moment i am writing this response.

Or, get a lattepanda
#3  
Sweet i had a feeling it would work and never heard of a intel up-board will check it out, thanks u guys.
PRO
USA
#4   — Edited
Sometimes the answer is around the corner:

Virtualization:

https://www.virtualbox.org/

Quote:

VirtualBox is a powerful x86 and AMD64/Intel64 virtualization product for enterprise as well as home use.It
VirtualBox only runs on Intel x86 / x64 or AMD x64. 

https://www.vmware.com/products/workstation-pro.html:

Quote:

System Requirements
Systems using Processors (CPUs) launched in 2011 or later are supported except:
Intel Atom processors based on the 2011 Bonnell micro-architecture (e.g. Atom Z670/Z650; Atom N570)
Systems using Intel Atom processors based on the 2012 Saltwell micro-architecture (e.g. Atom S1200, Atom D2700/D2500, Atom N2800/N2600).
Systems using AMD processors based on the Llano and Bobcat micro-architectures (e.g. code-named Hondo, Ontario, Zacate, Llano)

In addition the following are supported:
Systems using Intel processors based on the 2010 Westmere micro-architecture (e.g. Xeon 5600, Xeon 3600, Core i7-970, Core i7-980, Core i7-990)
1.3GHz or faster core speed
2GB RAM minimum/ 4GB RAM or more recommended
Once again Intel hardware.

Then you have specialized (not for consumers/beginners):
XEN
https://wiki.xenproject.org/wiki/Xen_Project_Software_Overview
QEMU:
https://www.qemu.org/

if you pick a product ABC the best source is the product website.

To summarize: 
Yes you can run Windows virtual machine on a Linux host, but only if the hardware is Intel or AMD.

Virtualization does not handle emulation, so if your host is x86 you can't have x64 or ARM guest. 

QEMU can be installed on Raspberry PI (ARM) and can run a cripple unsupported Windows (ARM not Intel) image.

NVIDIA boards are ARM, theoretically you can run QEMU virtualization, and maybe a very cripple Windows image. 

You are a beginner, stay with Intel, Windows, ARC.

Why look for low level expensive reserved for professional/enterprise products when you are in an early stage ?
PRO
USA
#5   — Edited

Quote:

Arc On Windows 10 Viva Vitualbox Or Wine App
Wine runs x86 or x64 applications, like virtualization wine does not handle hardware emulation, so if your linux host is Intel you can run some windows applications through Wine.

more info:
https://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ#Is_there_a_64_bit_Wine.3F
https://wiki.winehq.org/ARM

even if you use an Intel Linux, Wine .NET compatibility is very limited e.g. SAPI (Speech APIs) are the same used with Windows XP.

Wine is not supported neither endorsed by Microsoft, due to commercial copyrights, they can't use original windows binaries only available through a commercial windows license, so the main idea is to create a windows 32 environment (not an emulation) on top of Linux to run win32/64 applications. 

Once again I don't recommend for a beginner, if you have a lot of time to spare, good luck, otherwise stay far.
PRO
USA
#6   — Edited
jut thought I say, wow,  ptp, haven't thought of Virtualization:, hypervisors, VMware - in a long time, did that years ago, I know it is still going strong.

I still enjoy Linux - I still run a Linux Debian server...

The lattepanda can run Arc.

for wine site: 32 bit Wine runs on both 32-bit and 64-bit Linux/Unix installations. 16-bit and 32-bit Windows applications will run on it.

So ARC will run

my 2 cents, 

thanks

EzAng
#7  
Thanks ptp im glad u said that, cuz id been so mad if i bought the Xavier and it wouldnt use it lol, i think ill stick to the latta panda then, seems to be the best small mobile solution other than a laptop lol, and at least i know it will run ARC lol.
PRO
Synthiam
#8  
LattePanda is good - but i think the Up Board is better bang for the buck. Again, i've been using an Up Board and it's rock'n pretty good. For the price, it's a lot cheaper than latte panda
PRO
USA
#9   — Edited
What version of the board are you using DJ?

I'm building this current bot around the original latte panda...I'm up to about 16 axis of motion so far and have not tested with the panda to see how it will run....been using my laptop to build out. Wonder if I'm going to run outta steam with the panda.
PRO
USA
#11  
Huh the site I went to has a up extreme, up 2, up core, etc. So this is the plain ole Up. got it.
PRO
Synthiam
#12  
Oh, i should add that this is ridiculous though ... what ever camera is in this Ohmnilab robot is giving me an insane framerate

User-inserted image



And here's the task manager running ARC with 60 fps. Keep in mind the desktop window manager is using quite a bit because i'm connected via Tight VNC for remote connection. When i'm not connected via Tight VNC, the desktop manager is 0.5% and the full cpu of the entire system is 40%. It's pretty great
User-inserted image
PRO
Synthiam
#13   — Edited
The site has lots of Up stuff. But there is only one Up Board. Up Board. Up Board. Up Board. Up Board lol

There is no "plain ole up". There is Up Board and a bunch of others. I'm using the Up Board

User-inserted image
PRO
USA
#14  
Wait what? Is that real? That is insane!!!
PRO
Synthiam
#15  
Oh, i should add that this is the 2gb ram version with 16gb ssd. It's only big enough for Windows + ARC. I wouldn't install anything else on it. I turned off Windows Updates. I also disabled hibernation so that freed up 2gb file as well

User-inserted image
PRO
Synthiam
#16  
You bet it's real - so crazy to see the response time. It's ridiculous to see a camera at 60 fps
PRO
USA
#17  
That is extremely impressive.
PRO
Synthiam
#18   — Edited
Here is the usb info for the usb camera: USB\VID_05A3&PID_9230

Interestingly, it's made by ARC International:D

User-inserted image
PRO
USA
#19   — Edited
Hahaha. Cool, thanks for the info!
PRO
USA
#20  
@Ezang:

Quote:

I still enjoy Linux - I still run a Linux Debian server...
Debian might be the oldest distribution with a large number of fans, and is very stable, their 1st priority is stability. You must be the the first one (in the forum) using that distribution. 

Quote:

for wine site: 32 bit Wine runs on both 32-bit and 64-bit Linux/Unix installations. 16-bit and 32-bit Windows applications will run on it.
So ARC will run
cool you are familiar with WINE, maybe you should create a tutorial how to install wine, and run ARC, once in while people jump in the forum asking for Linux, WINE and ARC, good details and instructions will help future questions, what you think.

I'm hands full but is an interesting challenge.
France
#21  
@ptp and @Ezang

I am a Linux user (Archlinux) and I have successfully installed the last version of ARC beta (2020.04.25.00) under Linux with WINE. It is fully functional and most of the plugins I have tested work. The only functions that are not working so far are Speech Recognition and Speech Synthesis (issues related to SAPI) and there is a small appearance glitch (windows "close"/"configuration" buttons appear as boxes). But overall it is more functional and smooth that the mono version.

It is not working out of the box, though, and some workarounds are needed, namely the installation of dotnet72 and corefonts with winetricks.

I am going to test it a little bit longer and if it is stable I will make a tutorial to detail the installation.
PRO
USA
#22  
@Fredebec:
Thanks for the feedback, go down the rabbit hole and report the findings. I gave up a few years go, but I know it works for "well behaved" win32 applications.

not working:
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Audio/Speech-Recognition-16118
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Audio/Speech-Synthesis-16117
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Audio/Total-Speech-Recognition-17688

if you can test:

ARC Robot Designer & Library (EZ-Bits) 
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Overview/Blockly-16214
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Camera/Camera-Device-16120
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Audio/Microphone-16061
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Audio/Soundboard-PC-16086
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Simulation/Avatar-JD-19315
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Misc/Roll-Pitch-Yaw-15889
https://synthiam.com/Products/Controls/Audio/AudioToolbox-Plugin-15933

You are a linux/mono ARC user maybe you can compare wine vs mono (Intel linux).
PRO
USA
#23   — Edited
try my robot in exosphere, ptp
EzAng
France
#24  
@ptp

Here are the results of the new tests:

working:
- camera device (& tracking)
- soundboard (both PC and EZB)
- microphone

not working:
- Avatar-JD --> impossible to load the plugin
- AudioToolbox --> the plugin loads, but all menus are empty

mixed:
- Blockly --> it works - I successfully made a script - but there is so much visual glitches that it is barely usable.

unknown:
- Roll-Pitch-Yaw --> plugin for ARC, not updated for ARC

Comparison of the WINE and MONO versions is impossible to do for now as I cannot connect to the EZB with ARC Mono. I have the following error

Code:

2020/04/26 18:10:14 +02:00 - Attempting connection on 192.168.1.1:23
2020/04/26 18:10:14 +02:00 - Connection Failed: System.ArgumentException: Invalid IAsyncResult
Parameter name: asyncResult
  at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.ValidateEndIAsyncResult (System.IAsyncResult ares, System.String methodName, System.String argName) [0x00003] in <9bd67acb7e9448b0ae17ea9ad68db84f>:0 
  at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.EndConnect (System.IAsyncResult asyncResult) [0x00006] in <9bd67acb7e9448b0ae17ea9ad68db84f>:0 
  at System.Net.Sockets.TcpClient.EndConnect (System.IAsyncResult asyncResult) [0x0000c] in <9bd67acb7e9448b0ae17ea9ad68db84f>:0 
  at EZ_B.EZB.Connect (System.String hostname, System.Int32 baudRate) [0x000ca] in <48dadb0c06224dca87f439621844f9ba>:0 
2020/04/26 18:10:14 +02:00 - Disconnected
PRO
USA
#25   — Edited
@fredebec
did you try the design:
User-inserted image
PRO
USA
#26  
@Ezang:
I asked my Kid to drive your bot. I hope your bot is safe for kids:)
PRO
USA
#27  
lol, try again - read to him the instructions

EzAng
France
#29  
@ptp

I tested the design and everything worked until I try to save, then it crashed. So it is not really useful...

Your Roll-Pitch-Yaw plugin works.

Here is the error in the debug console when I try to connect to the EZB in ARC Mono:

Code:

2020/04/26 20:41:29 +02:00 - Attempting connection on 192.168.1.1:23
2020/04/26 20:41:29 +02:00 - Connection Failed: System.ArgumentException: Invalid IAsyncResult
Parameter name: asyncResult
  at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.ValidateEndIAsyncResult (System.IAsyncResult ares, System.String methodName, System.String argName) [0x00003] in <9bd67acb7e9448b0ae17ea9ad68db84f>:0 
  at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.EndConnect (System.IAsyncResult asyncResult) [0x00006] in <9bd67acb7e9448b0ae17ea9ad68db84f>:0 
  at System.Net.Sockets.TcpClient.EndConnect (System.IAsyncResult asyncResult) [0x0000c] in <9bd67acb7e9448b0ae17ea9ad68db84f>:0 
  at EZ_B.EZB.Connect (System.String hostname, System.Int32 baudRate) [0x000ca] in <48dadb0c06224dca87f439621844f9ba>:0 
2020/04/26 20:41:29 +02:00 - Disconnected
PRO
Synthiam
#30  
The up-board is $100. Get that and it just instantly all works. Size of a credit card
PRO
USA
#31   — Edited
with $100 you get  1GB/16 GB not enough for Windows 10, with $120 you get 2 GB / 32 GB short but you can run Windows.

Lattepanda 2GB/32GB with WIFI/BLE/arduino costs $89 versus $120 2GB/32GB Upboard without WIFI/BLE/Arduino
Both do not include Windows.

Isn't the Lattepanda more affordable than the Upboard ?
PRO
USA
#33   — Edited
*** moved to another thread ***
PRO
USA
#34   — Edited
--- moved to another thread ---
PRO
Synthiam
#36  
I can’t find a place to buy latte panda. They all seem to be 200+
#37   — Edited
@DJ...  DFRobot... but they are currently out of stock of the 2g/32g model at the moment 
Latte Panda $89
PRO
Synthiam
#38  
They’ve been out of stock for a year it seems lol - I’m guessing they’re trying to push the more expensive pandas? And stopped producing the low cost ones
#39   — Edited
Yeah looks like it. I settled on the 4g/64 Enterprise version but when I bought mine it was much less than $209
France
#42  
I bought the first generation of LattePanda 4G/64GB (from their kickstarter campaign), but it has many design flaws and it stop working without any reason (and with no solution from their support). They probably made progress in QC since then, but I must admit that I am now hesitant to reinvest in a Panda...
France
#44  
@EzAng,

Thanks, I am aware of Virtualbox. In fact, it is what I use on a daily basis for ARC (see post #1 of this thread)
PRO
USA
#45  
So what is the problem my friend? ARC works?

EzAng
PRO
USA
#46  
Requirements to run ARC 99.9% on a Virtual Machine:

Host Hardware CPU: Intel x86, Intel x64, Amd x64 (ARM is not supported e.g. Raspberry PI, NVIDIA and other ARM boards)
Support for Virtualization: Not all Intel CPUs support virtualization, please check the vendors websites.
Host Operating System: Windows, Linux, MacOS
Guest (Virtual Machine) Operating System: Windows 
Virtualization Software: VirtualBox, VMWare, Parallels
PRO
USA
#47  
Requirements to run ARC on Linux Wine:

Host/Guest Hardware: Intel x86, Intel x64, Amd x64 (ARM is not supported e.g. Raspberry PI, NVIDIA and other ARM boards)
Operating System: Linux (Obviously)
Feedback: posts# 21, 22, 24, 25, 28, 29
Recommendation: Runs with several problems, not recommended and not supported 
France
#48  
To complete the info on virtualization, it should be noted that the virtual machine can use only a sub-part of your PC resources (half of them generally). It means that you need to have a sufficiently powerful PC to handle the virtualization.
So, ARC may be slow sometime when many functions are open and work at the same time, even if the PC have the minimum specifications.

Overall, quality of the screen is also less optimal....
PRO
USA
#49  
Maybe the simple solution is just get a Windows laptop  :-)

That is what I use

EzAng
France
#51  
@ptp,
OK, good idea. Thanks.
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