Asked — Edited

Pcb'S In Larger Robot Builds

Many of you know that I am working on a production robot called Rafiki. Because it is production, I have had to do some circuit board design to limit the number of wires that are strung inside of Rafiki. I decided that I would use USB type A wires for as many of the wire connections as I could for a couple of reasons. The USB type A cable offers 4 wires and is easy to break out to individual wires once to the wire destination. The max length that I need to run a wire is 3’ and the wire specs handle my needs. This also reduces the wire count by 4 times and is just enough wires to meet my needs. The USB Type A cable is a very common cable and allows easy and dependable connections to be made.

Most of the time, you will either have 2, 3 or 4 wires needed for a connection. 2 would be for things like sending serial commands to a device like a Sabertooth motor controller (ground and TX). If two Sabertooth motor controllers are in close proximity to each other, there should be no reason that two of these connections can’t share one USB A connection. Many times you will have Ground VCC and Signal for sensors. If the Amp draw is low for these, you would be able to use a USB Type A cable. I wouldn’t run servos through a USB cable as they are high amps, but a ping sensor, or IR sensor could use these cables easily. A 4 wire connections would be something like a Ground, Serial RX, Serial TX, VCC type connection. Anyway, you get the idea.

I have 8 subsystems in Rafiki, all of which monitor their own sensors and motors. Some of these communicate with other subsystems. For example, there are ground drop off sensors, car bumper proximity sensors and wheel control systems. These 3 systems are tied together so that if a drop off is detected or if there is an object detected within x inches, the robot will not start to move or will stop. After the stop command has been initiated from the motor controller a serial connection to the main robot computer is used from the subsystem controller to provide information back to the main robot computer. Inside Rafiki, there were wires connecting these sub systems together so that a really quick reaction to these situations could take place without needing to go back to the computer to then tell the motor controller to stop. As you can imagine, working on Rafiki got a bit confusing. To solve some of this, I built a PCB that would house 6 of the subsystem controllers. The other two are close to their associated devices which already used USB cables so adding these 2 to the main subsystem controller board was not necessary. The PCB is made so that the connections to the subsystems are built into the PCB and no longer use wires. I also placed the USB type A headers on the board so that the wires from these controllers would be accessible from the USB port headers on the board. This greatly reduced all of the little wires that are hanging off of the boards and placed them in one central location which helps to clean up the wiring issues. It would also provide more reliability.

I thought that building a PCB would be a difficult thing to accomplish. The design work had to be something that you would need an EE degree to understand, right? The software had to be expensive and the order process for ordering these boards had to either be a pain or would be very expensive. I thought to get a good board at a decent price, I would probably have to go to China, and then it might not be all that good, right? I was wrong and this is the real purpose for writing this. If you are still reading, congrats, you have gotten to the good part

In doing a lot of research online, I found a board manufacturer that had some great reviews. They seem to be the go to guys for small volume and inexpensive boards in the United States. Their reviews all stated how people were very pleased with the quality of their boards, so I started really looking into them. Their website is .

I wanted silk screening on the boards so that I could mark the boards with the appropriate information as my brain is getting old and information isn’t hanging out as reliably in there as it did 20 years ago. This was important to me. I also wanted a 2 layer board so that it could be simple and traceable using my eyes and not some crazy diagram that would get lost or accidently deleted. They have a package called the 33each board, which allows you to create 4 boards (60 square inches each) of the same type or design for $33.00 each. You can place multiple items in the same 60 square inch board. This allows you to build things like USB breakout boards for a lot less than what you would buy these for. This included everything that I wanted, but scoring would cost extra. I am going to be using some different tools for scoring/cutting these boards for testing the results and will post the results. They have other options for one off boards that cost more per board, but lower total price. For example, one board would have cost around $65.00 and 4 boards costs $132.00. The single board didn’t include silk screening though and as I said, this is important to me. I decided to give these guys a shot, but I had to do the design EE degree, right?

These guys make a software package called PCB Artist which ties in very closely to their ordering process. Eagle has a free version and there are many others also. I opted to go with PCB Artist in order to get this done and move onto other areas of my robot that need my attention. I am not an expert at these types of apps, but I found PCB Artist to be pretty simple. It has a large component library, is easy to use, is intuitive, allows you to design multi-layer boards, has tests that can be run to validate your design, has nets that can be defined so that you can associate pins to other pins and then have these nets connected using proper trace widths, and it has a feature that is pretty good for simple designs that helped me a lot. If you use nets, you can auto route your nets which uses the manufacturing rules to make sure that the routes are within the tolerances that are needed for production. If you have errors from the tests that you run, the location of the errors are marked for you to see the location of the error and to fix. This made designing the PCB simple really, once I understood the widths of the leads that needed to be used for different type of leads. This app also allows you to print your design (which could be used for etching if you wanted to) so that you can then verify that your components will fit on the board as you expect them to by setting them on the paper to make sure that the pins will align with the design. This app also allows you to use via's to transition between layers if needed. Use this sparingly as via's can cause some interference with communications signals. During the initial design, I had many of these on my board. I spent a day simplifying my design as much as possible and got these down to 2 via's on different signal connections placed a great distance from each other on the board. I wouldn't recommend getting overly complicated with your design as it will just introduce more complexity than is necessary and will probably introduce an issue that will not be easily fixable.

I finished the design, and clicked one button to order the board. I put in the 33each code so that I would get the deal I was looking for, and uploaded my design. Checks are performed by this software to make sure that there are not any issues that are not accounted for and you are alerted to any issues. The order went through without any issue. I did have a question for them and sent an email to them. 4 different people all checked to make sure that the answer to my question was received after a phone call from the production manager. I also cancelled an order without any issue. This was a test to see what I could expect from them.

I will post photos of the board that I receive. This isn’t the final board, but more of a test to verify that everything is as expected, but this got me thinking. This could definitely be used for the robot hobby and I plan on doing this for my larger builds. By doing this, I will be able to cut some of the cost of some of my simple electronic components by over 50%. It also should provide a cleaner install and more reliability. It is worth checking out if you haven’t. I don’t know what is available in Europe or other areas of the world, but in the US, this is a great option. I would suggest wiring your robot and making sure it works as expected prior to doing this, but it definitely has its benefits when you are nearing the end of your build.


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@David Tanks for sharing.


Wow, very detailed and through explanation of the PCB and PCA (Printed Circuit Assembly) process. Informative and helpful for those of us with just a bit of electronic knowledge and a desire to design small circuit boards for our robotic ideas without breaking the bank.


I used these guys for a previous job, however I designed in Pads. They know what they are doing and call if something doesn't seem right with the design. I also found it funny that they send popcorn with the finished product:)


Thanks for sharing.

I have a few custom (perforated) boards, i never attempted to design a pcb, due to lack of knowledge/time to learn the Eagle software.

You mention you have several subsystems, are you designing a board to manage the wiring, power, logic levels connections or to incorporate micro controllers, specialty ic circuits ?


Nope, not yet. I am hiring a company for that so that they can spec everything out for manufacturing when I get to that point. This part is a step toward that, but not all of the way there. There are 2 IC's on the board, but neither is much of anything.

Right now it is more about managing things.

This is why I said this is a idea for hobby robotics. What you are talking about takes it to a different level, one that I will be at eventually.


Was juggling a lot when I typed the last post...

Right now it is mainly for management of items. The subcontrollers are arduino mini's right now. This board will simply give me a place to put these and eliminate a lot of wiring. Eventually the goal is to use the open source designs of these and put them directly on the board instead of accessing the pins on the arduino's.

This is the first step to making this happen but will allow me to continue prototyping. I am putting sockets on this board so that if something becomes damaged, I can just replace that component. Eventually they will all be on one board but I will hire a firm to do this as I don't have or really want the skill set to make this happen.

The two IC's that are going on the board are the 74HC74's from the other post. Something else this allows me to do is to put some of my pull up resistors on the board instead of in the wiring.


if you have multiple arduino mini pro, how do you connect them to the main PC. There's a RX/TX but you need a FTDI board for each one, then you need to use an usb hub, it's too many wires, unless you have a multiple serial board with TTL signals ?

Why so many mini arduinos ? You need to control the motors, read IR sensors, read ping sensors, read Analog values, some i2c devices (imu ?), probably 2 or 3 are enough...

United Kingdom

I also build large PCBs to cut down on wiring in my robots, below is the ALTAIR EZ:1 head which has 3 networked PICs where only the master PIC interfaces with the v4. This has all been updated not to include the B5T-HVC in the head.

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[Edit] I was a jerk here and will make a better explanation of what I meant.
PTP, I can't get into a ton of the design here, send me an email and I would be happy to talk to you about this off line. This is a public forum so there is only so much of the design that I can post. [/Edit]

You have my email. If you would like to discuss the design, please send an email and stop hijacking threads. I would love to get your thoughts and would love to express why I have done things the way that I have via email.

This was a post to let people know about my experience with a board manufacturer and give the information needed to use it.

Tony, it sure makes things more simple to figure out later. The screen printing is something I really look forward to.



Sorry i didn't want to hijack the thread, i got carried away with the curiosity. No more questions:)


No problem with questions, just shoot questions about the design to me in an email. I would love to discuss it with you.


Great work and a very interesting article with usefull information ! Good luck with the Rafiki, it looks promising.


I should get the boards in today. I will take pics and post them so that you can see the quality of board that I receive.

This first batch is to test the manufacturer. I put as small of traces as they would allow. I also wanted to test the printing on the board, the mask and the pads. Ultimately these are going to be chopped up and thrown in the trash. I will test different methods of cutting the boards and all. Anyway, it was a $132 investment in research and discovery. If I like what I get, I will order the actual boards.



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Board photos

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I will see how it solders and how it cuts this week when I have time. I am pleased at this point with the boards. The print is good, the mask is good and all of the leads tested good. The screen printing is sharp and not smudged. I have completely redesigned the board to include a lot more than it does now. I also have everything labeled better. I did make sure that every component fits the layout of the holes. Good so far for a test.


I got out the wet saw last night and cut down one of these boards. The wet saw did a great job on these and kept the fiberglass dust from being an issue.

I also now know how thick the cut will be and can make sure that the redesign of the board has adequate spacing to allow these cuts. I think I will use this method for these prototype style boards. I will post photos later of the cut down parts.


looks nice, got your popcorn lol


If my doctor reads this he wont be happy, but that was last nights dinner...:)

Thank you. I hope to have some time to do some soldering just to make sure that there are not any issues. I have a large order waiting on me to test out every aspect of this board that I can.

I am thinking about having them do the manufacturing of the parts I need. The first order will be on me, and then from there I will decide.


Switch over to a hot air popcorn popper and drip a teaspoon of coconut oil over a popped batch instead of butter, you and your doctor will be happy!


solder pads are no issue at all. attached is an image of one of the parts cut from the board and components soldered to the board.



@Doc.... Awe made me feel guilty.... There goes my stick of butter as my popcorn topping.... stupid cholesterol.....:P


Without showing too much,

Here is the board order that is going in for the first 4 prototype boards for Rafiki. It is a big day for me tomorrow as finding this company and liking their work takes me a huge step closer to getting something out. This order should be the final order to identify any issues with the design prior to making adjustments and placing a large order of manufactured boards.

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I have a couple of headers to buy, but other than that, I can start my next Rafiki build with improvements that were identified during this build. Good progress...